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Lou Dobbs Tonight

News/Business. Lou Dobbs. The journalist offers his take on issues and interviews newsmakers. New. (CC)

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01:00:58

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Us 16, Syria 16, Benghazi 13, U.s. 10, Clinton 6, United Nations 6, Obama 6, Obama Administration 5, Libya 4, Israel 4, Boston 4, Leon Panetta 4, Fred Barnes 3, Garth 3, Greg Hicks 3, S&p 2, Legalzoom 2, United States 2, Crowley 2, Steven Hayes 2,
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  FOX Business    Lou Dobbs Tonight    News/Business. Lou Dobbs. The journalist offers his  
   take on issues and interviews newsmakers. New. (CC)  

    May 6, 2013
    7:00 - 8:01pm EDT  

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all of the kind words. it was really nice. we had fun with it. keep watching "the willis report." let's make this 16,000. in lme? thank you for being with us. that's it for tonight. we will see tomorrow night. ♪ lou: good evening. thank you for being with us. the obama white house a sale on three fronts, the view from the president's critics as this white house had made monumental mistakes in its middle east policy, and coherent response to the syrian civil war, it's stonewalling of what happened and why in the benghazi terrorist attack command failed response. this past friday, the president again standing on foreign soil and criticizing the nation he leads, this time for the deaths of more than 70,000 people, those mexican citizens murdered by the drug cartel. 70,000 murdered, another 20,000 missing since 2006.
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tonight we will take up president obama's foreign policy failures throughout the broadcast. we began with syria. white house press secretary jay carney earlier today rejecting a united nations report that concludes the chemical weapons are being used by the syrian rebels, not the regime which president obama had declared to have crossed the so-called red line. >> we are highly skeptical of suggestions that the opposition could have or did use cut weapons. we find it highly likely that any type of chemical weapon used that has taken place in syria was done by the regime, and that remains our position. lou: whether skeptical or not, here is the just one week ago announcing that the obama administration was then confident that chemical weapons had been used. and he neglected to mention the white house itself had called
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for the united nations to investigate those reports. the president by that time was trying to walk back is redline rhetoric while acknowledging we simply don't know what is happening with serious chemical weapons. >> we have established with varying degrees of confidence that chemical weapons were used in limited fashion and syria. and the agent sarin, as we have said. we have a team won the united nations as a team ready to deploy within 24 to 48 hours. if he allows that the men and follows through on his stated commitment an interest in having this matter investigated. there is much more to be done to verify conclusively that the red line that the president has talked about has been crossed. lou: as the president, as even some of his supporters now worry, lost his footing in foreign policy, particularly
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middle east policy? we take that appeared tonight with former you had states ambassador to the united nations , john bolton, retired army brigadier general, former federal prosecutor, and les wheel. as pressing as developments were today in syria, in the investigation into benghazi command will have much more for you on that, and the fallout from the president's remarks on mexico, the president chose to take something of a personal bank. mr. obama chose to play a little golf with senator sexting chambliss, bob corker, and market all, this, by the way, if you count such things, is 1,201st of shouting as president, as you see, we do count such things. only the second time he has played with a republican member of congress. it was senator chambliss who dominated media attention. the senator score a hole in one. the senator choked up on a five iron, hit 155 yards into the
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wind on the 11th hole of the andrews air force base course and walked away with the little flack autographed by the president to commemorate the occasion. but much more was going on besides the senators ace. fox chief white house correspondent ed henry has that part of the story. >> reporter: at the regime of syria and the president show off what he planned to be the damage from more israeli air strikes and talk of a wider war started bubbling in the mideast. white house officials into a double down on president obama's redline comment, declaring he did not add live the last august by suggesting the maybe u.s. military action if chemical weapons were used. >> his use of the turn red line was delivered and based on u.s. policy, consistently over sang both to the regime and others privately. >> reporter: that runs counter to a new york counterparts sunday quoting officials inside the administration as declaring they were surprised by the
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president's unscripted comments that made by some and now that there is evidence chemical weapons were used in syria. a leading republican senator john mccain charges the conflicting signals from the white house are straining its credibility around the world. >> the conflict is spilling over into lebanon and jordan. the whole situation is becoming more and more expensive and unfortunate. the red line, the president of united states, apparently written in disappearing ink. >> reporter: party said a white house sharply disagrees and pointed to the experience. >> the fact of the matter is, jumping to conclusions and acting before you have all the facts is not a good recipe for policy decision making. >> reporter: well the president all but ruled out sending u.s. ground troops, the administration is still weighing whether to ramp up its aid to the syrian rebels by sending
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weapons or launching possible u.s. air strikes against the military planes or his missile sites inside. >> i don't take any options of the table as commander-in-chief. circumstances can change. you never know what contingencies you have to deal with, but what i do know is that i cannot see a scenario right now in which american troops on the ground would make any sense. >> reporter: it was telling that as he touted the fact that the u.s. is the top provider of humanitarian aid in syria, he said the administration is planning a coordinating role. now under pressure to play a leading role. lou: thank you. fox news chief white house correspondent. wednesday's congressional hearing on the benghazi attack is shaping up to be a difficult day for the obama administration the testimony will be, in part, dominated by a whistleblower in the state department's counter-terrorism bureau. expected to testify about the
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failure of secretary of state hillary clinton to assure the benghazi facility security. fox news chief washington correspondent has our report. >> and directed our response from the state department and stayed in close contact with officials from across our government. >> reporter: in the early hours of the crisis, the state department whistle-blower will send tell congress secretary clinton and undersecretary of state for management tried to cut the department's own counter-terrorism bureau out of the chain of reporting in decision making. what would have been her motivation for doing that, do you believe? if you wanted it to seem like it was in terrorism, keeping in out of the room allows you to play with this false truth that somehow it was a video, the same as the protests in egypt which, of course, from the get go everyone knew just wasn't true. >> reporter: the whistle blower is a former marine and longtime senior officer in staged counter terrorism bureau. fox news is one another official in the san bureau voiced the
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same complaint about clinton and kennedy back in october. congressman allies to cummings of maryland, ranking democrat on the house oversight committee accused the panel's republicans of distorting the facts to drum up publicity for wednesday's hearing. the spokesman state agreed the motivations appear political. >> this is not the private -- the process where they're working directly with us and try to establish facts that would help as we look to keep people safe overseas and a complex environment. >> reporter: a spokesman called the charge 100 percent false and former counter-terrorism bureau chief told fox news, though i was out of the country on official travel at the time, was in frequent contact with the department. of town was the bureau sidewinder otherwise come from carrying out its tasks question of political appointees. >> reporter: another whistle-blower will be greg hicks, the number two u.s. diplomat in libya. in a committee interview released sunday he blamed the
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false talking points delivered by un ambassador susan rice on a sunday talk shows of september september 16 for the absence of an arrest. that is because a live in president had already declared it a terrorist event, not a protest on our right. the net impact of that is the spokesperson of the most powerful country in the world has basically said that the president of libya is either a liar or does no one is talking about. that caused a huge delay in our ability to bring to justice. >> reporter: also speaking out today, former u.n. ambassador thomas pickering and chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. they led the state department's post and does the review board. in a statement to fox news that it to did the work of the panel which is now under review by the state department's own inspector general. lou: thank you. obviously the obama white house faces mounting questions about its conduct in the least policy, refusal to get clear chemistry
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for answers to the questions of congress and july in particular, the questions of the house oversight committee. our first guest tonight, the retired u.s. army general, former commander of the first infantry division, combat veteran who saw action in vietnam, granada, yugoslavia, and iraq. let us begin with, if i may not a question of a red line. the president said that any evidence of chemical weapons would be in game changer. he read articulating that statement. now we have the united nations, one inspector saying that the rebels were using the chemical weapons. a second united nations report that linked chemical weapons -- is not able to link chemical weapons to either side. what do you make of that? >> i think this is a real debacle for the obama
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administration. i would have drawn the red line the president drew, but having drawn it so emphatically and then failing to follow through on it, i think he has impaired his credibility. worse and i think he has impaired our country's credibility. and the standard that he is now putting of having a u.n. investigation inside syria verify what actually happened ideas that will never take place. the investigators will not get in for years, if ever. the situation remains completely chaotic. the israelis have now acted in their own self-defense, not necessarily against the chemical weapons but to make sure some missiles did not get to hezbollah. the united states just sits on the sidelines. lou: your thoughts? >> well, it's hard to tell who used chemical weapons. in fact, if that did happen. insurgents could have captured chemical weapons and use them in some small way. but it's probable that the
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syrian army actually controls all the chemical weapons, and if it was used it would have been used by them. what the ambassador said about his role is very important because they can't take a chance , nor can jordan. i mean, one of icky things he could do to defer all the pressure that he is in during is to spilled over into adjacent countries or some other issue. that could happen any day. the israeli air strikes are very justified. lou: the air strikes and you're you are justified. at the same time, we have heard much discussion about the surface to air capability of syria, that the israelis just wanted apparently. the russians and all of this, where they stand? >> well, the russians may indirectly be supporting syria. it's hard to tell. i don't have that information. indirectly would not doubt that. it's all about trading in
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technology. the israelis obviously dominate anniversary in forces. the different than any other wars in the middle east of the past 30 years. the same when u.s. troops went into iraq. it's all about technology and training. lou: technology, training, and we're going to be taking up what will be the likely syrian response if there is to be one. we will continue with general david grange, ambassador john bolton on the weekend strikes in syria. and gang of eight immigration plan faces lots of opponents. we point out three of the most important in that "chalk talk". president obama tells ohio state graduates, there is nothing sinister about big government. and not to worry their pretty little heads about tyranny. the "a-team" next. ♪ with the spark miles card from capital one,
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♪ lou: senior defense officials are now confirming the fox business that north korea has moved its intermediate range ballistic missiles back away from all launch site on the country's eastern coast. pentagon officials say that two missile batteries are being returned now to garrison, ending weeks of tension on the korean peninsula. the move comes ahead of the meeting that will be held tomorrow between president obama and south korea's president at the white house. back now with general grange and ambassador bolton. i want to turn to the syrian response and what you might -- well, to see what you think of it. general, first, to what degree is syria have the capability to react to is a real strike? >> well, they have the capability to launch missiles,
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aircraft, ground forces. i think it will be stupid on their part. i think israel would love that to happen. it was slim and. and it is just an excuse to take down any kind of military capability that they have. so i don't think there will do that. i think it will be done through surrogates, maybe to hezbollah, tensions in other ways, but not direct assault, unless it was just a last-ditch effort on the part. lou: investor, is a real beating of security, its move to reinforcements of its so-called iron come to the northern part of the country. what are your expectations? >> well, i think syria, the regime is otherwise occupied. i know think it will retaliate. i think this is a lot less about the serious civil war than it is about a ron moving assets from syria where it thinks there probably not very useful to has the law and lebanon when mib
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very useful. lou: were talking about missiles. >> right. retaliating against israel. i think it is also significant that after delaying for a couple of hours on sunday night, israeli prime minister netanyahu left for china. scheduled to be until friday, and i don't think you would have left the country if he felt that there was a real risk of serious retaliation or, for that matter, an eminent has lost track. lou: and let's turn to benghazi, wednesday, the hearings are taken up by the house oversight committee. this looks potentially to be explosive. i want to ask you about one part of what one of those the door will be testifying. that whistle-blower is greg hicks, the deputy chief of mission at the u.s. embassy in libya at the time of the terrorist attack, saying that everyone, and his judgment, including he and everyone in his judgment the sides felt it was a terrorist attack and has he put it, from the get go.
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and he told congressional investigators for the committee that the team of special forces who was prepared to fly from tripoli to benghazi, and they were forbidden to do so by the u.s. special operations command. is that -- how do you assess that in the credibility of the whistle-blower and the facts as you understand? >> you know, i don't have all the facts. but just what would normally happen, if there is an issue like benghazi where you have a consulate, in the sea under attack for individuals anywhere in the world, if there is an issue, we have to respond, especially government officials, we have extremist forces that are on standby in each region. it may not -- it is not necessarily the premier. maybe those that are trained to do this in the extreme situation
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, and there is no doubt in my mind that there were put to a staging area to prepare for something like this, the launch approval would have been through the secretary of defense, of course, and then the president. my whole feeling is, if you have americans in dress under attack, which is a known fact and you don't launch, i think that is wrong. i would rather be damned for doing something then them for doing nothing. and if one american was left in harm's way there should be a response. the question is always, the sacrifice of you for the whole. but if you don't go win for your people, you lose confidence, you lose pride, loyalty, and a sense of unity in the force. so the force should have been moved in to go after these people. lou: ambassador, i cannot recall a single sentence uttered by the defense secretary, leon panetta
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that resonated with the values that general renter has just articulated. can you? >> it is very hard to explain the lack of response by the administration on september the 11th. we know in retrospect how long the attack took, but at the time decision makers could not know that it was about to and when it did, and they could not know that it would be confined to the consulate. there were other posts that were potentially endanger around the middle east, private american citizens throughout the region. yet almost nothing happened. so this hearing is potentially quite significant. beyond the tragedy itself on september the 11th, why request for enhanced security was denied for months by the state department. how is it the administration came up with that story about the video windows on the ground that knew it was false. lou: ambassador, thank you. general, thank you. we appreciate both of you being with us tonight. on wall street it was a quiet
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day for the markets. investors rely on earnings this week to drive the market as the economic news calendar is virtually empty. 408 of the 500 s&p companies have reported. 68 percent of them have been targets higher than the ten year averaged a 62%. the dow is down five points. s&p up three. another record. it is the night of the year. in nasdaq of 14. volume on the big board over 3 billion shares. bank of america, big movers on the day. saddling a long-running dispute. in the commodity market through oil and gold both higher. oil now back above $96 per barrel. selling continued in the debt market. the yield on the 10-year treasury is now at 177. the yield 163 just last thursday. turning to the weekend box office, it was decimated completely by iron and three. the third edition earning an
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astonishing $1,705,000,000 in its debut. the second best movie opening ever. needless to say, the rest of the top three get the scraps. ppramount pain and gain. second place. warner brothers jackie robinson, 42. i think we'll do. and let's take a quick programming note. coming up in the days and weeks ahead, some great authors are joining us. their books will all be best sellers. richard and william join us. they have written a spellbinding account of the doctors treated android president john f. kennedy in the first lady and many others in their circle. the book is dr. feel good. there will be with us tomorrow. historian rick atkinson joins us to talk about his long awaited conclusion to the extraordinary world war ii trilogy, the final installment is the guns that last flight. best-selling author and fox news contributor joins me with his latest novel.
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i recommend their books to you. of course you don't want to miss our talks with these great authors starting tomorrow. up next, the gang of immigration plan scuttled. perhaps by -- any one of these three men. in that "chalk talk" we will show you how. for seeing your business in a whole new way. for seeing what cash is coming in and going out... so you can understand every angle of your cash flow- last week, this month, and even next year. for seeing your business's cash flow like never before, introducing cash flow insight powered by pnc cfo. a suite of online tools that lets you turn insight into action.
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lou: we've been talking a lot about foreign policy but this is a big week for immigration reform. they will begin amendment to "gang of 8" immigration bill thursday, it will be dramatic, marco rubio, he is the face of the "gang of 8", really quite remarkable he became the face, bipartisan democratically led effort but there it is. these are the faces of the opposition. the gangbusters, if you will.
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demint is number one on the list, president of heritage foundation, today robert richter put you on a study that showing legalizing 11 million illegal immigrants will cost taxpayers a net $6.3 trillion. i mean, that is the net number. why th the according to heritag, typical illegal household receives $14,000, right now, a year. and more in government benefits than it pays in taxes but it could jump by their estimate to $30,000 if the "gang of 8" plan becomes law. more than double.
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and heritage is a force, i want to be clear, to could reckoned with, in 2007 last time congress debated so-called immigration reform heritage reduced a respect, annal say that was plan finding -- analysis that plan would cost $2 .6 trillion, less than half of cost over next several decades, in there will be great weight give to be the study. by the way they will create opposition, club for growth, emergencies tax reform -- heritage usually wins these intermuriel conservative battles, this is congressman googood lot, chairman of house committee some are drawing
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comparison to congressional cram down of obamacare, which is not an example of good government practice but good lot, has two measures one, agricultural guest worker program, i'll call it a gw program, the other, the everify system. which requires employers to verify through the government system of everify whether or not a perspective employee is legal and qualified for the job, goodlot said shy will from introduce other measures in the week ahead.
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rob senator jeff sessions of alabama, ranking republican on senate budget committee emerging at bill's most vocal critic, said that path to citizenship for 11 million illegal immigrants is pure bull. he has an impressive amount of research, to support his position. according to sessions, and the staff of republican staff of the senate budget committee, the "gang of 8" plan would not give legal status to 11 million but to more than 32 million ill grab ill immigrants. additional 25 million visas in his judgment, would be granted
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in his view to nonimmigrant, now we know senator's rubeo feeling. by the way, he is starting senator rubio, face of the gang the 8 to say, wher why rush it? why not think this out? why not make sense injudgments, question, given record of this obama administration and this congress and senate, will the facts matter to them? we'll find out. lou: israel bombs syria, syria threatens israel, the ateam on what appears to be a broadening war. >> one of 3 students charged with covering up boston bombing
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lou: the teenager accused of lying to fbi agents in the boston bombing case freed to today, a magistrate judge agreed to release phillipos under strict conditions, including house arrests with an electronic monitoring bracelet while awaiting trial, phillipos, a friend of boston bombing suspect dzhokhar tsarnaev faces up to 8 years in prison if conpsychiatricked oconvicted ofi agents. >> one of three whistle-blowers
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is expected to identify wednesday. >> joining us now, andrew mccarty, former tomorrow prosecutor who convicted the blind sheik and elise wheel, thank you for being here, you said that whistle-blower seemed to prove that administration did act with well full fraud to protect the president during an election. what suggestions that this is in your judgment willful fraud? >> the fact they knew from went about 2 hours it was a terrorist attack. they knew by the end of the night it had nothing to do with the video. they put out day after day, that of it the video not a terrorist
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attack. >> and you have seen them in cases, that sometime the cover-up not always, but the cover-up is as bad or worse than the crime, you know thank goodness steven haze bringing things forward. one reason we'll have the whistle-blowers testify on wednesday, but the idea this could be happening all of these months later, without the administration coming forward, is absolutely incredible to me. lou: i think many people had given up hope there would be a crack in a obvious stonewall around the administration on this issue. >> the whistle-blowers will see what they testify, to but i think they are brave to come forward, because, there has been a lot of jabber back and forth about whistle-blowers, what has not been focused on there is not much whistle-blower protection when national security is involved it is a real gaping
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hole. lou: would you address this most of us think when we hear whistle-blower, they are protected and move to a special status, and they are then, absolutely protected from reprisal, and punishment for stepping out in the national -- >> when you talk about a business for example, or a oil company or something like, that absolutely, you talk about the federal government, it is more of a gray area, but i do disagree in a sense in the eni think whistle-blowers, they are called self-designated whistle-blowers will e protected. it would be worse if they were not covered. >> they are not legally protected, national security and classified information is expressly excluded from the whistle-blower statute, when congress, apending th amend thet
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year, obama truck out. he said he would cover them with executive order, and with antic an executive order but it is not enforceable in a court of law, we don't want national security to be easily put out there. >> but we do when there is clearly a cover-up for information a cover-up at highest left, we want the whistle-blowers to come forward. >> but there has to be such political protect for them, that justice department would not dare go after them, that still makes them very brave in my book, you cannot bank on that. lou: jennifer grey, with a report on armored vehicles whistle-blower. i believe 2004. it is tough stuff, let's go to
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turn if we may to the release of this young man, today in boston, this is now just another crime? is that it. >> i am sorry, this is -- this is a point you got him in there, you finally got him, you got pressure point, why release him? i know, you know, it is cruel and unusual, but it is not really, he was involved in aiding in a terrorist fact even if after the fact, i would, if his been the magistrate judge and prosecutor argued to keep him. to get his lawyer to say, kind of that you come here, you know first in first out, you talk to me the prosecutor could you are first in you are first out. out. >> this problem with treating cases, criminal justice matter instead of a war matter, he is
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then a american citizen, and getting bail. unless you can show he is a risk of flight or community. >> yes, both. >> if they come with inn with a package, and -- if they come in with a package, and judge is satisfied. lou: you believe it should not be a wa crime. >> absolutely. >> i am saying, in and was itself they are not charged with being access res after the facts when that what in a were engaged? >> if they were charged with conspirate ores, aiders and abilitiors abetters. >> they don't have evidence. >> they should not let him go. lou: we'll continue thank you. >> up next, president obama making an extraordinary declaration about his government vision of government to young college
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students, ohio graduates, in which he says, embrace government and never fear tyranny. trust him. the a-team takes it up, monica crowley, jud judith miller, fred barnes are next.
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visit us at marsco.com. no trading minimum. no share limits. no inactivity fees. go to marsco.com to open your account today. $3.95 a trade. lou: the a-team is with us now, monica crowley, jud jude judith, frid barnes, you, steven hayes, you have done extraordinary jobs steven has been brilliant on his reports on benghazi and will stop wall and how it is -- stonewall, and how it is unalso
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unravelling. >> it has been forced on mainstream media, which has played the story, not at all, which is what obama administration wanted, remember it came up, in settlement, while campaign of still on and white house was terrified about it, we find out now what they did to play it down so the president would not be blame for claims thattal guide was dead and so. to see the mainstream media pick up the story because of steve's reporting, it is long overdue. lou: your thoughts ? >> i just think it is amazing jay carney went out there, and said, you know, benghazi was such a long time ago. why was it such a long time ago? perhaps obama administration delayed, and delayed answering questions then had a blue ribbon panel they did everything they could to make it go away. lou: none of us know what the impact will be of hearings and testimony of whistle-blowers
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what other people will step forward, but we know that steven hayes, and weekly standard have played an important role, in advancing the cause of public knowledge about what did happen. we also need to assess, what is likely to happen, this does this look threatening to more than secretary of state hillary clinton? i'll phrase it that way. >> oh, yes this goes so far up the food chain, i don't think we know to extent. we don't have a timeline of what president obama was doing on the night of september 11, we know he had ini initial conher sig ch leanne -- leon panetta, they all need to come out, you know one last point, the question, there has been a lot of talk about cover-up, but the question, what were they covering up, one this
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was an al qaeda terrorist event, and was there an illegal gunrunning operation to syrian rebels with new force in the conversation. lou: i think general grange, we turn to you fred as we come back, but i think general grange said that is most important to so many, did the folks, appreciate forces people receive an order to stand down. with americans facing death in benghazi. we'll back with the a-team in moments. stay with us, we're coming right back. ases, plus a 50% annual bonus. and everyone but her... no. no! no. ...likes 50% more cash. but i don't give up easy... do you want 50% more cash? yes! yes?! ♪ [ male announcer ] the capital one cash rewards card gives you 1% cash back on every purchase, plus a 50% annual bonus
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lou: as we went to break, fred barnes was about to say
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something to what is the result of the benghazi break. >> well i think you know i was going to ratify what you were talking about. the stand down order to send a rescue mission or planes or whatever, in to benghazi, they will hear testimony, i believe on wednesday from former state department officials and number two guy in the embassy, in benghazi, that says, many of these americans could have been saved in particular those fighting all the way to the end, they could have been saved if planes had been sent to scare off terrorists or that group of counter terrorists is in tripoli had been sent. >> what is scandalous about this, apart from loss of 4 americans, including president's u.s. represent, the ambassador, and greg hicks who became number one representative in libya when ambassador stevens was killed it
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raises the question of who gave that stand down order, they point to the military, it could have been leon panetta, the question is who will take the fall for president obama and %-clinton.of state hillary clinton. lou: after this months of stonewalling do you think that is a possibility? i have to say, i hope that leon ppanetta and president obama, ad secretary of state hillary clinton talk about the issue of getting ready to go into that terrorist attack, is spec streaking as a great warrior, that is who he is. that is who he represents in military, that is who our military circumstanc. is, not leon panetta. those are values that do not exist in -- >> i think we have to be careful
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here, we still don't know basic facts about this those democratic friends of mine who say, wait until all of the facts are out, that is all we've been asking for, this en tire time the reporters have been trying to get to the bottom. lou: i'm sorry it has been 8 months this obama administration as forfeited its right to make a condition as far as i'm concerned. when american people and what reporters must respond to is the need and the right to have knowledge of what our government has done and why, it is that simple, it is what weekly standard as done, and proud to say our colleagues at fox news have done, i am not patient with the idea of anyone in this administration telling us why we have to wait further, they fore tilted that. >> even the general saidy need the facts -- we need the facts. lou: i'm begging for the facts
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judy. neil: and why don't we have them. >> with that i have to a thank you, to you judy miller, and fred barnes and monica crowley, thank you for joining us, and good night from new york. it's monday.
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neil: serves them right, now gouging college are served up humble pie, welcome i am neil cavuto, this is what happens when you keep sticking it to students, students stick it to you back by not sticking around, that is why a big ma culpa from private colleges are startles, after years of raising tuitions colleges retreated because kids are not paying, their i leaving now colleges are retreating according to a survey released, the colleges are gulp, discounting, that is right,